Here’s to in-person connections! Most people don't know that up until just a few weeks ago Thomas and Panu had never met in person. They had connected over long distance and constructed their podcast dialogue over the last few years solely through electronic means. So, it is very special to us that this episode was recorded over Thomas's living room table in Portland Oregon while Panu was visiting during his tour of the United States. So, join us as the pair discuss their podcast relationship, current events, and what Panu has been seeing and learning during his visit to Charlottesville, Virginia and across Northern California, and his hikes in the redwoods. This episode goes well with our recent theme of eco-friends, and we hope it encourages you to re-connect — in person — with someone you care about and who also shares your care for people and planet.

Thomas and Panu had a warm conversation with a long time friend and colleague of Thomas, environmental science and advocacy expert Gregory Hill. They explored the idea of “eco-friends”—the close personal relationships we have with friends and collaborators that support and inspire us in our environmental values and actions. Greg recounted his life from early connections with the desert lands of Arizona to his discovery of Buddhism and classic environmental literature, and his varied academic career. He described his research on the Pacific salmon and his service with First Nations peoples in Canada seeking legal sovereignty. The conversation highlighted the importance of the community we have and how our friendships contribute to the long term history and stability of our environmental identities. While friendships are certainly a form of social capital, our eco-friends are especially important to hold dear.

Thomas and Panu connected with Julian Manley and Kamila Kuc who joined in from Scotland and London to explore the intersections of climate change, emotions and the arts. Kamila and Julian described their recent collaboration using the practice of social dreaming, a group process to discuss and find larger meaning, emotional reality, and direction from personal dreams. Hosting social dreaming gatherings is a powerful way to foster community dialogue about eco and climate emotions and support artistic practices such as poetry and film making. They had a rich dialogue about art, action, and ways to envision nature as an active participant in our collective dreams. 

Thomas and Panu spoke with noted social and environmental psychology researcher Cindy Franz from Oberlin College. First, they revisited Cindy’s foundational research on people’s connectedness to nature. Then they discussed her new work on how communities adapt to climate change. Cindy noted that “adaptation begins in resilient communities” and saw her work at the local level as hopeful – “real people, attacking real problems in real communities.” She explained how she and her colleagues study the potential for feedback technology with the Oberlin Environmental Dashboard to encourage conservation behavior, connect people back to the natural world, and promote systems thinking. The message to communities was “we can deal with this, together” and we “don’t have to agree on climate science to work on weather changes.” She believed a cross-partisan approach could motivate action without triggering despair. Join us for a positive episode!

Thomas and Panu met with USC climate researcher Gale Sinatra and climate psychologist Renee Lertzman and spoke about how to cope and help with recent Los Angeles wild fires—at the disaster site and from a distance. The need was made real in the context of Gale’s sudden loss of her home to the recent Eaton fire and her unfolding experience as a climate refugee. 

Thomas and Panu present a special episode focusing on coping with the ongoing Los Angeles wildfires with on the ground reports from Southern California Ecotherapists Linda Buzzell and Maria Nazarian, and artist and climate activist Maksim Butayev.

Thomas and Panu Pihkala welcomed Stylianos Syropoulos, director of the Intergenerational Decisions and Effective Action (IDEA) Lab at Arizona State University to discuss his research on how people approach their legacy in relation to their environmental values. Stylianos explained that thinking about one’s legacy is an ancient and cross-cultural concern. Legacy can be understood in various ways like the biological legacy of having children and grandchildren, the material legacy of the world we leave behind, and values-related legacy of preserving what we care for. All of these are affected – and often threatened – by the events of climate change. Join us for a fascinating conversation, with take-aways that might help you be your own version of “future ancestor.”

Thomas and Panu had a mindful dialog about the end of the year to new year’s transition. Looking back on 2024, they noted the significance of Panu’s climate emotions wheel for people new to expressing feelings about climate and environmental issues, the challenges of being seen as an expert, and the importance of taking regular breaks to appreciate our efforts and accomplishments (or what Thomas calls a “behavioral sabbath”). Looking ahead, they shared the embodied activities they each do like cross country skiing as ways to recreate and restore themselves, and taking on new creative past times like training in Butoh theater (for Panu) and drumming (for Thomas). Ultimately, they emphasized the need for seeking joy and gratitude in the face of sorrows of the world, and the importance of giving oneself and others permission to feel happiness.

Panu and Thomas met with with Brighton UK climate psychologist Steffi Bednarek, author of Climate, Psychology, and Change. They explored stages of Steffi’s journey into climate psychology, and the importance of Gestalt therapy in her understandings of how our selves entwine with nature and our perceptions of environmental issues and problems. They discussed how concepts like mindfulness and “creative indifference” offer additional perspectives on the seemingly hard distinction between hope and hopelessness. Steffi also shared her efforts to to create a platform for experiential learning in climate psychology.

In another of their intimate international dialogues, Thomas and Panu discussed the significance of connecting with nature for them during the changing seasons. Panu evolved the Finnish season of Marras, the gray time of the year as Autumn transitions to darker Winter, and when it’s normal for us all to be sensitive to feelings associated with grief. Thomas reflected on holidays of remembrance like Veterans Day (dating to WWI Armistice day), Remembrance Day for Species, and the Day of the Dead that help to mark our losses and celebrate our continuing bonds. Their conversation emphasized that "We create our own light when we need to" – and reminds you of the the value of your community and connections in your own place this season.